Painter Factory Migration/Upgrade Option

 

Greetings Painter Community.

Change is certain and one thing that has drastically changed is community. I have noted the Painter Factory has been filling with spammers very rapidly over the past year. The underlying software we use is dated and in need of an upgrade that takes time and resources away from building better software. As a consequence, we are faced with some options, one of which I would like to share and get your feedback on.

Start a New Factory Forum using Google +Plus

Google Plus is a very powerful, free and well thought out framework for personal, public or group communications and collaboration. Over the past six months, I have noted more and more functionality, flexibility and user privacy options. The likes of Google, Facebook and Yahoo are in business to build communities and happily, they are competing to keep it compelling and in most cases, respectful of people's privacy.

Since Google is free and it has a very long track record around user privacy, I believe it is the logical place to consider for a new and improved community use. I realize there are downsides, but in my opinion, the benefits far outweigh them. Consider these points:

- Google Plus it is free, open and available 7x24, not to mention, it is maintained by a focused group of developers. Since it is highly integrated across more and more Google properties, it has long term staying power in the market

- it has tremendous new communications capabilities that our current software does not have. You can actually Hang Out with Forum members, connect over video and even share your desktop if you choose to

- it has the perceived upper hand over Facebook as it relates to user privacy. But then again, you could sign up and call yourself Bill the Cat... not that you heard that suggestion here.

I could go on with the upside and downsides, but the world has really moved to more open, scalable community frameworks. It is likely, some of you may refuse to join in if we end up proceeding with Google Plus as our new home for the Painter Factory Forum. We cannot please everyone, but if I do get considerable push-back, then I am more than willing to look at other options.

I have created a working prototype you can join...please don't assume the decision is final. This is simply a placeholder to help you visualize and try it out. Note, you will need a Google Account.  

Check it out here: 

https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/118294394721741468091

You are welcome to comment on this thread, or within the Google Plus community.

 

Happy New Year to all!

Andy

33 Replies - Latest Reply

  • Looks great Andy.  Smart move!

    Skip

    Skip Allen Instructor Digital Art Academy Corel Painter Master Elite http://skipallenpaints.com/

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous

    In reply to skipallen:

    Thanks for the feedback Skip. I am concerned about social media fatique since many find Facebook a challenge to keep up with or even use. Since google properties continue to integrate Plus, I think it is the winner. If we do close this community and switch to Google, it is one less network you need to actually log into.

    Andy

  • In reply to Anonymous:

    Andy, many of us have absolutely no interest in a Facebook type Forum (Google+) and everything attached to them.  Personally, I find Facebook to be one of the biggest time wasters ever. Dedicated forum software such as IP Board is straight and to the point without all the superfluous Facebook type features.

    What is wrong with using software that what many, many Forums use without major problems such as IP Board. Karen Bonnaker has used IP Board for years on  Painter Talk without major problems and practically no spam.

    I don't know how old Painter Factory Forum's software is, but it seems prehistoric compared to most other forums that I visit regularly.  As for spam, maybe you just need more moderators to trim the spam.  Ginny is a fount of Painter knowledge, but her talents and time are wasted tweezing out spam.  Try getting IP Board and a few volunteers and users should see a HUGE improvement in Painter Factory.

    I am not in the least interested in Google+ or any other so called 'social media'.  Dedicated forum software is focused and to the point. In all probability, I will consider stopping my reading of Painter Factory if you go to Facebook or similar such as Google +

    Sorry, but you did ask!!!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous

    In reply to Doug B:

    Thanks for that viewpoint Doug. It is evident we need a migration to new and improved forum framework. We are spending 10 days per month weeding and ferreting out the trolls. I am looking at the options including open source, paid software and mainstream portals that millions of people are using.

    Convincing anyone to join social media that has not already is up there with selling an alternative religion or the upside of full verus term life insurance. That said, I believe Google is taking its ques from all the mistakes Facebook have made.  

    It is highly unlikely we will host our own software on our own servers. The world has simply moved on to software as a service and hosted options that are cheaper, better and more secure.

    Andy

  • In reply to Anonymous:

    Wasn't implying that you should host your own forum software, just find a hosting company that you like and host an IP Board or whatever software there.  For starters, contact Karen Bonnaker of Painter Talk and ask how she does it.  

    If one or two persons can run Painter Talk, surely Corel could run a similar setup; could they not? 

     

  • In reply to Anonymous:

    Will this vast Forum discussion resource continue to exist for looking up terms to find past solutions to problems that are solved in the Forum user archieves? Many times I have found these discussions find ways to describe methods or work-arounds that simply don't work when looking within Painter Help

     

    Painter 2016, Mem 80%, MultiCore 4, Scratch C:/, Undo 32 - Win 7 64-bit, i7-2600 CPU 3.4 GHz 16 GB RAM, AMD Radeon HD-6450 GPU 3-HD (5TB), dual monitors, Intuos 4 tablet

  • In reply to Anonymous:

    On the "Plus" side, so to speak, the general migration idea does sound good.

     

    However, there are privacy issues with Google+ just as there are with Facebook and other such sites.

    A simple example is the Google+ Sign Up form I attempted to use in order to help test the site you propose.

    It asked for information I don't choose to share. Not being the worst examples, I could probably manage those parts of the form.

    The one I literally can't manage and think is ridiculous for Google to require is a Mobile Phone number. The problems with this are:

    I do not currently have a working mobile phone and may never have one.

    I can't make up a phone number using all zeros as the form won't accept that solution.

    If I make up a phone number using real numbers, I run the risk of using someone else's number, which I have no right to do... and, for obvious reasons, do not choose to do.

    So, I'm left not being able to complete the form even if I do divulge other information I would prefer not divulge.

    Wake up, Google. Not every human being has a mobile phone, even if some of them might not mind sharing the number if they did have one.

     

    All I want is a reasonable amount of privacy and I know for a fact many people feel as I do about this. 

     

     

    Another issue is Google's demonstrated interest in using copyrighted art without the knowledge or agreement of the copyright holder.  Or, their interest in profiting from copyright holders registering their copyrights via commercial sites owned by companies such as Google.

    If you're not aware of these issues and want to learn about them, information on the subject is available on the Illustrator's Partnership website at:

    American Society of Illustrators Partnership

    Also, posted at The PainterFactory, a two-page thread containing issues of the Illustrators Partnership newsletter.  Do a search for the word Google and read the article on page two of this thread. That newsletter is yellow and was posted on Wed, Oct 1 2008 9:41 AM Pacific:

    An Urgent Matter for All Artists - New Orphan Works Act of 2008

     

    Privacy and protection of copyrights are both very serious issues and are taken seriously by many of The PainterFactory's members and members of other forum sites as well.

    Just ask on sites like Conceptart.org and (though it's not as active as it used to be), Sijun forums, to learn what their members think.

     

    I'd strongly advise not moving ahead too quickly whether or not we all want a better forum site... we do, I do, and we'd all enjoy it if the price doesn't turn out to be too high.

     

    In Any case, take plenty of time to read, re-read, understand, ask questions about, then read again regularly as they'll change every so often....

    The Google Terms of Service

     

     

    Jinny

     

    .

    Welcome to The PainterFactory! Jinny Brown PainterFactory Forum Moderator from July 2007, when the site opened, through March 2013 Visit PixelAlley.com for more about Corel Painter
  • In reply to Doug B:

    Doug B

    Andy, many of us have absolutely no interest in a Facebook type Forum (Google+) and everything attached to them.  Personally, I find Facebook to be one of the biggest time wasters ever. Dedicated forum software such as IP Board is straight and to the point without all the superfluous Facebook type features.

    What is wrong with using software that what many, many Forums use without major problems such as IP Board. Karen Bonnaker has used IP Board for years on  Painter Talk without major problems and practically no spam.

    I don't know how old Painter Factory Forum's software is, but it seems prehistoric compared to most other forums that I visit regularly.  As for spam, maybe you just need more moderators to trim the spam.  Ginny is a fount of Painter knowledge, but her talents and time are wasted tweezing out spam.  Try getting IP Board and a few volunteers and users should see a HUGE improvement in Painter Factory.

    I am not in the least interested in Google+ or any other so called 'social media'.  Dedicated forum software is focused and to the point. In all probability, I will consider stopping my reading of Painter Factory if you go to Facebook or similar such as Google +

    Sorry, but you did ask!!!

    QFT

     

    damn, Corel, back at it again with the new bugs.

  • In reply to ipetcats:

    QFT? Would you mind elaborating?  Does it mean Quite F****** True?  If not, what does it mean?  I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has no idea what you mean.

  • In reply to Doug B:

     

    sorry, been texting too much recently.

    quoted for truth, basically.

    damn, Corel, back at it again with the new bugs.

  • In reply to Doug B:

    Doug B
    Wasn't implying that you should host your own forum software, just find a hosting company that you like and host an IP Board or whatever software there.  For starters, contact Karen Bonnaker of Painter Talk and ask how she does it.  

    If one or two persons can run Painter Talk, surely Corel could run a similar setup; could they not?

     

    I don't know how she manages Painter Talk now, but when I was more active there, Karen had at least a couple of moderators, and two people who either did design work for the site (Chris) or served as a webmaster/technical problem solver (Ken). I assume the latter two are paid and the moderators are volunteers.   I was given moderator privileges to manage my own forum there, though there was some overlap from the volunteer moderators. In other words, Karen has considerable help but it's clear she runs a very nice message board where the members are happy and the atmosphere is peaceful.  It can be done.

    In addition, when my own message board, TutorAlley forums, was active from October 2002 'til July 2007, before I began moderating The PainterFactory forums...

    • I purchased very affordable software and installed it myself,

    • Did the design work (set forum colors, added some graphics, opened appropriate forums, some open and some private, and so on),

    • Reviewed and either approved each and every member or deleted anyone who didn't qualify (i.e. spam bots, known troublemakers, etc.),

    • Ran the forums with one or two volunteer moderators,

    • Had an approved membership of over 600 with a core of active members who kept the forums busy, interesting, and fun,

    • And I managed to teach some Painter classes.

    It can be done, and with a little help, done even better!

     

    The PainterFactory is a Community of Corel Painter users and artists.

     

    We don't need to be owned and run by big corporations who have only their own interests at heart, no matter what they want us to believe.

     

    Jinny

     

    .

    Welcome to The PainterFactory! Jinny Brown PainterFactory Forum Moderator from July 2007, when the site opened, through March 2013 Visit PixelAlley.com for more about Corel Painter
  • In reply to Jinny Brown:

    I presume Jinny is not the only one removing spam? I don't see that much spam so whoever is involved is removing it very quickly. Wouldn't more volounteer mods deal with the influx in the meantime? It's always good to have eyes on the forum around the clock.

    Having said that, a deliberate and determined spam attack can be very troublesome to deal with, usually ending up with the forum shutting down for a time. It's a very depressing thing to deal with and these days spammers are very devious. It's often not long before they're back. Mods are helpless. Only those who understand the software and keep up to date stand a chance of really doing something to stop these attacks. Most of you are probably aware of this anyway!

    I'm not overwhelmed by the idea of involving an anonymous giant like Google but I suppose it's worth looking in to. More and more people are communicating this way, using smart phones, etc. and keeping all their bits in one package. The more people who test The Factory on Google+ the better I suppose but it's far easier for those of us who already have a Gmail account. I hope a solution can be found.

  • In reply to JoeC:

    JoeC
    I presume Jinny is not the only one removing spam? I don't see that much spam so whoever is involved is removing it very quickly. Wouldn't more volounteer mods deal with the influx in the meantime? It's always good to have eyes on the forum around the clock.

    Having said that, a deliberate and determined spam attack can be very troublesome to deal with, usually ending up with the forum shutting down for a time. It's a very depressing thing to deal with and these days spammers are very devious. It's often not long before they're back. Mods are helpless. Only those who understand the software and keep up to date stand a chance of really doing something to stop these attacks. Most of you are probably aware of this anyway!

    I'm not overwhelmed by the idea of involving an anonymous giant like Google but I suppose it's worth looking in to. More and more people are communicating this way, using smart phones, etc. and keeping all their bits in one package. The more people who test The Factory on Google+ the better I suppose but it's far easier for those of us who already have a Gmail account. I hope a solution can be found.

     

    Joe,

    Please check your PMs in a few minutes as I'm going to respond to the above that way.

    Thanks,

     

    Jinny

     

    .

    Welcome to The PainterFactory! Jinny Brown PainterFactory Forum Moderator from July 2007, when the site opened, through March 2013 Visit PixelAlley.com for more about Corel Painter
  • In reply to Jinny Brown:

    Andy,

    The google + painter factory looks great, I'd say its a fairly logical decision to move to it. I'm not a fan of facebook at all, but google + is different in many respects. It also feels more classy and professional.

  • In reply to Aza:

    To be honest I much prefer forum layouts to Google+.  I get lost and bored looking for the thread of the conversation.  :/