PainterFactory.com

ghiangelo:

 MoXi, the website states, is licensed to Adobe. it is a 3D program and relies on nVidia graphics cards as it's main rendering system. PS CS4 is being described as leveraging more of the GPU in it's processing and will feature more 3D.... maybe this is it.

Oops! My apology for not reading the site in it's entirety before posting. I was just so excited about seeing the possibility for real watercolor washes FINALLY!

It does appear that Photoshop is going to be the program of choice, even for Painter freaks like me. I have the CS4 Beta... and can at the moment already say, WOW! Fast, responsive, rotating canvas, rumors of dynamic Brush resizing... add watercolor and even just half of the Painter brush engine, and Painter will cease to exist very shortly.

DocPixel:

It does appear that Photoshop is going to be the program of choice, even for Painter freaks like me. I have the CS4 Beta... and can at the moment already say, WOW! Fast, responsive, rotating canvas, rumors of dynamic Brush resizing... add watercolor and even just half of the Painter brush engine, and Painter will cease to exist very shortly.

That's why Corel needs to concentrate only on natural media functions and not try to compete. At the moment buying Photoshop for painting is like buying a Porchse just to listen to the stereo but that may change if Corel don't concentrate on the core Painter functions.

 I agree the beta of CS4 Photoshop shows great promise and is all the things you say...

 But to even think that Painter will cease to exist is beyond the realm of my thinking.  I love Painter and Photoshop both and feel there is a place for both of them. 

Ann
 

REkzkaRZ:

 Jinny,

 

Thanks for that articulate response.  I appreciate it.

 

You're welcome!

 

How about showing us what xml Painter is generating?  Can we re-do paintings manually by re-running XML from a painting, and perhaps removing a few lines here & there?

Not sure what you mean. It'll help the developers if you can be more specific.

I mean ... Painter seems to use XML to do everything, including remembering 'scripting' (ie brush strokes, etc).  But it hides all this info, rather than allow users to see what's going on.  It could be useful to see what's being recorded.

Corel Painter records scripts that are saved in the currently loaded Scripts library. The default Painter X script library file is named Painter Scripts.scripts (both Mac and Windows) and in previous Painter versions, the default script library file is named Painter.ssd (Windows) or Painter Script Data (Mac).

To see what an individual script contains, do the following to save it as a .TXT file that can be opened in a text editor:

1. In the Scripts palette menu, choose Open Script.
   
   
2. In the Open Script dialog box, highlight the name of the script.
   
   
3. Click the Export button.
   
   
4. Navigate to the folder where you want to save the Exported script, then click the Save button.
   
   
5. Back in the Open Script dialog box, click the Done button.
   
   
6. Open the Exported script .TXT file in a text editor and you'll see everything the script contains.

SimonDB:

That's why Corel needs to concentrate only on natural media functions and not try to compete. At the moment buying Photoshop for painting is like buying a Porchse just to listen to the stereo but that may change if Corel don't concentrate on the core Painter functions.

well Painter is the defacto leader in natural media simulation and has a brush engine not matched by anyone else. there are many things that Painter can improve on but it's not going to be a Photoshop since that's not what it's for.  there are different artists, with different talents that use only certain tools in Painter. i for one only use a limited number that are airbrush and impasto related, so since i need selection tools to mask areas out i find that Painter's selection tools to be terribly lacking, for instance Painter immediately needs a Defringe capability right now.

as for it's programing, Painter is processing brushes differently than Photoshop. give Photoshop the brushes of Painter and you can say good bye to the high performance of PS.  the task for Painter in the future is to continue to streamline it's code, like it's been doing, and work on making it's brushes take advantage of the multicore CPUs in all modern PCs. it's taken years for Adobe to finally work the GPU into the actual application performance. how much programming resources it took i don't know. it's whether or not it can be a similar achievement in Painter that's the question. rest assured John Derry is on the case!

You just gave the reason why I think a future plug-in would be ideal for those that use a small subset of Painters functions and/or brushes. Use the availability of Multi-Core and GPU processing AND 64-bit, and I seriously doubt that a Painter plug-in would cause PS to crawl, since it would be accessing it's own RAM space and Threads. This is what MultiThreading is all about as I understand it. Also intelligent OSes these days allot resources far more dynamically and efficiently than in the past, pulling from one process when needed for another.

I sure hope John Derry is on the case! He is a genius! However for some reason, I think that it's all about economics at Corel, with little room for real innovators like John, also... I don't think he has the energy or time at the moment. My heartfelt sympathies for what he and his wife are going through(!) Too sad for me to even visit his blog often.

Basically, Painter has been the same or similar since version 5, which I still use some days for the super-quick, down-n-dirty stuff. However, sticking to only the recent upgrade from 9, 9.5, and 10 (X)... what's changed FOR THE BETTER? Other than the speed increase... which is extremely important... was it worth the upgrade price? Was RealBristle (can't use without a 3D pen), Divine Proportion (we're working digital, and paint everything, everywhere, and adjust/crop later!) and Layout Grid (gotta go to Photoshop for pro compositing anyway) worth it?

For a huge number of pros, the answer is no. It's the pros and pro-shops that support pro-apps, not novices, especially at Painter's price. That is also part of the reason why I believe Painter could cease to exist. Painter can't live without our support, and that's why they created Essentials, which was and is a good idea at a good price point. However it's also lacking a lot of things that would also be of use to a pro (at least in our toolbox); a seriously great learning tool for students; and a low resource experimentation tool for computer novices.

One of the major problems I have with Painter at the moment... is not Painter... but Corel. Why no info from them? Why no betas, or at least let us, the hard core users, in on what they're working on? It's not like there's any tech secrets to hide. Are they embarrassed to tell is... or are they just marketing and squeezing out as many $$$ as possible? Maybe they're happy with what's there, regardless of our thoughts, opinions, and suggestions...? Many people have posed just that question on assorted forums. Why is it regardless of the forum, no one from Corel EVER replies to anything?

And why doesn't Rob MacDonald chime in here... like John Nack does for Photoshop.... they both have the same title as Product Manager. In fact, Rob MacDonald hasn't even posted one message here (check Worker Blogs). And I'll mention here, as I have over at the CG Society forums.... why is Jinny Brown the only person that ever seems to find the time to answer a question? (A BIG Thank You goes out to Jinny here!)

WHERE IS EVERYBODY... especially that so-called "Painter Team"??? Are they going to be at ComicCon? Or just some star artists showing how they "get by" and have "workarounds", tips and tricks for bypassing Painter's inadequacies i.e. bugs?

Again, Painter is STILL a great prog and I use it for 90% of my illustration work. And I think we can all agree, that it COULD be so much more, with so much LESS; or with a bit more development cooperation within Corel itself, and user-communication and interaction. They always ask... but never give any response in return.

Corel asked, "Tell us about your "Painter Wish List"... but the only people answering or replying are about a dozen die-hard Painter freaks like me! Other people I know have just plain given up, and are planning on pushing PS to it's limits... and have even uninstalled Painter. That's just plain SAD!... and that"s a HUGE reason why I think Painter might cease to exist or continue to be developed.

My sincere apologies for rambling... just had to get it all out. I feel better now :) Back to my next Painter illu due later this afternoon.

Peace. Out.

I sure hope John Derry is on the case! He is a genius! However for some reason, I think that it's all about economics at Corel, with little room for real innovators like John, also... I don't think he has the energy or time at the moment. My heartfelt sympathies for what he and his wife are going through(!) Too sad for me to even visit his blog often.

I didn't know about John Derry's wife - let's hope she gets well soon

One of the major problems I have with Painter at the moment... is not Painter... but Corel. Why no info from them?

I agree - Corel could be more involved in this process. Are our suggestions being taken notice of? It would be helpful to know. I'm not suggesting a Jinny Brown level of involvement :) but just someone saying... something?

Yes, the Corel Painter development team is aware of what is posted at The PainterFactory.

Here are names of people from Corel or representing Corel via contract work who do post here (listed more or less in alphabetical order, with Corel people first):

kellylm, PR Manager, Graphics

• Press Releases & Other News (Blog)

Steve Szoczei, User Experience Designer for Corel Painter, also designed The PainterFactory and the Essentials Cafe site (for Corel Painter Essentials) -

• SP!LOG - (where you can pick up Icon Handler for Windows, a utility to view RIFF file thumbnails and a pick up the Mac OSX.5 Quick Look plugin for viewing Painter RIFF files_.

You'll find Steve's posts in the following forums and Blogs:

• Announcements
• Got a Question?
• PainterFactory Help
• Suggestion Box
  
  
• Stewart McKissick's Painter Factory Blog

Wendy, Quality Assurance Specialist on the Corel Painter Development Team -

85 posts since May 5, 2008 in the following forums (the majority of Wendy's posts in the Got a Question? forum):

• Share Your Work
• Got a Question?
• Corel Painter X

John Derry, Corel's Painter Abassador at Large -

• The PaintBlog - (where you can read the whole story and some recent good news about Pam, John's wife).

Other posts from John appear in the following forums, Blogs, and Galleries

• General Discussion
  
  
• Chet's Gallery
  
• John Derry's Gallery
  

• Announcements
• Corel Painter X
• General Discussion
• Got a Question?
• Inspiration
• PainterFactory Help
• Painter Past
• Sandbox
• Share Your Work
• Suggestion Box
• Tips & Tricks
• Tutorials
  
  
• Jinny Brown's Blog
• John Derry's PaintBlog
• SP!LOG
• Stewart McKissick's Painter Factory Blog
  
  
• Cher Pendarvis' Gallery
• Jinny Brown's Gallery

Jinny Brown:

SP!LOG - (where you can pick up Icon Handler for Windows, a utility to view RIFF file thumbnails and a pick up the Mac OSX.5 Quick Look plugin for viewing Painter RIFF files_.

Jin, would you happen to know if the RIFF viewer for Windows works well? the Quick Look plugin is very slow to render thumbnails.

thx 

ghi

Hi ghi,

I only installed it early today and haven't used it enough to notice anything that might not work as well as we'd like.

At this point, it seems to be working pretty well, and it provides both icons and thumbnails. For me, the icons are useless, they're to tiny, but the thumbnails are large enough to serve the purpose nicely. 

Another thing I'll need to watch for a while, is (at the moment) it seems only files saved from Painter X or X.1 work with the utility.

If you try it, or know anyone who does, please post a message telling us how it works and what it doesn't do.

Jinny Brown, The PainterFactory Moderator.... everywhere person. ;)

**Well isn't that the truth! However this has to be the saddest reply I've ever read from you!!!

Hey ANN: this is why you better start comprehending the demise of Painter!

To Jinny: you have been a HUGE help to many, including myself, answering tech and Painter questions, however... I will repeat my original question, albeit more direct, and was looking (hoping? wishing? pretty-freakin-please-with-a-cherry-on-top?) for a more precise answer then who Blogs here:

" WHERE ARE THE DEV PEOPLE, Rob MacDonald (Painter Product Manager), and associated answers to WHAT IS COREL WORKING ON for the next update?

QUOTE - "Yes, the Corel Painter development team is aware of what is posted at The PainterFactory. "

*** well that's just peachy that they're "aware" of this forum! I'm "aware" that they prefer to not get involved and answer a few questions HERE! And I mean the REAL Dev-Team... not those below.

My take on the following handful of people you listed:

kellylm, PR Manager, Graphics * Press Releases & Other News (Blog)

****In other words and title: Marketing and Sales - just as I expected, and more than likely answers to the VP of Marketing, or? PR = Press Release = Blogger = whoopie!

Wendy, Quality Assurance Specialist on the Corel Painter Development Team

***Oh really! So Wendy can fix the code or GUI to make things work... oh yeah, she's just there to keep the people that bought, or are "trying" to upgrade Painter, pacified... but any real answers, like, "when will this or that be fixed", she's more than likely out of the loop and just as clueless as the rest of us.

Take the title apart: QUALITY = questionable ... ASSURANCE = of what? Fixing a bug or giving a timetable as to when it might be fixed or addressed? I doubt it! ...SPECIALIST = oh please! Just as pathetic as the movie with the same title!

John Derry, Corel's Painter Ambassador at Large

With John's pitiable personal family problems... you have the gall to put this or any other responsibility at his feet?! As you stated: Ambassador at Large (and we Thank him for that... and you for acknowledging him with the title)... but I also seriously doubt he's in the day-to-day loop of what's going on at Corel and with Painter, or has the time and/or energy left... Gawd Bless him and his wife!

Steve Szoczei, User Experience Designer for Corel Painter, also designed The PainterFactory and the Essentials Cafe site (for Corel Painter Essentials) -

*** well we Thank You sincerely for those 2 accomplishments! Now Steve, when you start, or find the time, to interact with your own creation (your Blog) and the prog in your Title (Painter) and it's USERS and their EXPERIENCES, that might raise my opinion about you and your title.... considering that Jinny is doing all the heavy lifting around here(!)

Might I add, the copy and paste PR drivel within your Blog, titled, "How did we get here?"... is over a YEAR OLD! Either you have a ghost-writer named Kelly, or you plagerized it from your job description at Corel, or some other software developer's site. Copyright Police... where are ya?!

Secondly, I'll state here as a comment to your Blog post, simply "BS"!

I'm not buying it, for the very simple reason that anyone that has been using Painter for all of these years (Painter 3.0 from Fractal... or was it Meta Creations?), knows that many bugs that were in IX, IX.5, and the initial release of X.... have STILL NOT BEEN FIXED or addressed in X.1! There's even bugs and wishes from 6, 7 & 8 not addressed! Long asked for BASIC features or GUI tweaks have simply been IGNORED!

BTW: so all of those Photogs you sat down and experienced Painter live with, told you they needed Painter to do the "RealBristle-Clone-Wedding-Portrait-Masterpiece".... and then make a bee-line back into Photoshop so that the could do a dynamic, full screen color tweak? BS!

So... above is the Corel Painter team... "eh"?

Well I guess we TRUE Painter freaks and illustrators that make money with it every day, or try to when Painter doesn't:

1) crash (MacPeople, go to User->Library->Application Support->Corel->PainterX-> 'your Workspace'->delete Tracker Settings.xml... just make an Alias to the folder and keep it on your desktop! You'll need it THAT often);

2) do something else weird (monitor lines or half a picture when zooming anyone? With an 8800GT 512mb GPU? UNBELIEVABLE!)... no known fix;

or

3) works after an OS upgrade without some "Bass-Ackwards" workaround (ever hear of open Beta testing? Could have put out a warning until a fix was ready. Probably afraid to because ya can't send Stevey out to hold everyones hand and look over their shoulder (steal their job description text to add to his Blog?), or the budget to do it because you have so many SPECIALISTS to pay rather than pony up for some more bandwidth! The Corel site is Dawg-A-Slo!)

 ... (after a deep breath)

...we will have to give the Beta's from Adobe's PS-CS4 a thorough work out, and serious consideration for our future Paint(er)ing and illustration needs!

I'll end with a repeat of my current mood about the future development of Painter, considering there's no REAL answers forthcoming: SAD and looks DEAD... or at least slowly dying to me!!!!

PS: ... here's our Painter Development Team.... indeed! :~}

 Hey  yo self!  They don't call me "Pollyanna" for nothing....I am a die-hard optimist.

Ann 

DocPixel wrote the following post at 08-12-2008 10:54 AM:

...

Well I think it's silly to be talking like that at this stage. I don't see the current situation as a big deal unless there's some deadly secret that's not being revealed, and there's no evidence that's the case. It would just be helpful for a few words on what's being planned for the next release, and what the strategy is.

Painting with a software product is very different to painting traditionally. Take the software away and it takes time to become proficient in another package, unlike a traditional artist for whom the demise of a brush or canvas manufacturer would make little difference. I've used Photoshop and its paint engine is quite simply the work of the devil, like trying to paint with felt-tip and varnish. That's why, to hard-core users of Painter, it's more than a "nice to have" to be informed well in advance of what the plans are for the software, because if the development strategy doesn't meet our needs we may need to spend quite some time finding ways to adjust. It's taken me over a year to perfect my brush settings so I'm not for changing any time soon! :)

And hopefully, if this does come to pass none of us will be foolish enough to throw away our software.  You don't burn the barn just because the horse got out.  

Ann