PainterFactory.com

 A few ideas ~

Colour Sets

Unlimited resize of palette

Option to best fit colours to palette size

Preview the colour the cursor is over in a larger 128x128 block 

Custom Brushes / Icons / Toolbars

I’d like to see this given a complete overhaul.

I’d like to duplicate an existing brush, modify it and assign it to a unique icon without having to create a new category for it.

A separate “brush control” function, like the brush creator option, so you can  view all your custom toolbars and brush icons, rename / create / remove toolbars, shuffle icons between them, edit the brush icon graphics (a proper icon editor) and redefine brush-to-icon assignments, all from one screen. Some of this is possible now but I find it very un-intuitive.

The option to have icons within the custom toolbar to re-organise (flow) based on the shape of the toolbar palette. This could apply to other palettes too.

Tonal Controls

The tonal controls need full screen preview option and pre- / post-change preview option.

Colours

Make the colour palette resizable to any dimension and the colour wheel resize with it

Mixer

Make the palette resizable to any dimension and the mixer resize with it

Shapes

It may be me, but when I draw a straight line I have to click the start point and the end point. I’d like to be able to drag the end-point and see dynamically where the line is going to go before committing.

Additions

I’d love to have the option to sample colours from one image (as if to create a colour set) but then change the colour attributes of a second image to fit the first’s palette.

What about a “minimise” option on each of the palettes, to allow maximum space when painting if required? When painting, a palette could be visible as a “stub” which unrolls when the brush is above it. You could then choose your option as usual and when you move the brush away, the palette disappears.

SimonDB:

A few ideas ~

Colour Sets

Unlimited resize of palette

Hi SimonDB,

Some of what you're asking for we already have in Painter X and Painter X.1 (and some in earlier versions as well).

We can make the Color Sets palette any size we want, even make it fill the entire maximized Painter application/program screen. Just drag the Color Sets palette out of the docked group of palettes. Then click and drag the lower right corner to resize it larger or smaller.

Option to best fit colours to palette size

We can make the Color Sets' color swatches whatever size we want. In the Color Sets palette menu, choose Swatch Size and from the flyout menu, choose one of the following options:

• 8 x 8 pixels
• 8 x 16 pixels
• 16 x 16 pixels
• 24 x 24 pixels
• Or choose Customize.... The Customize dialog box opens where you can adjust the Color Swatch Size: Width and Height sliders or type the number of pixels for Width and Height.

 
Custom Brushes / Icons / Toolbars

I’d like to see this given a complete overhaul.

Can you be more specific about what you mean by "Toolbars"?

 

A separate “brush control” function, like the brush creator option, so you can  view all your custom toolbars and brush icons, rename / create / remove toolbars, shuffle icons between them, edit the brush icon graphics (a proper icon editor) and redefine brush-to-icon assignments, all from one screen. Some of this is possible now but I find it very un-intuitive.

The option to have icons within the custom toolbar to re-organise (flow) based on the shape of the toolbar palette. This could apply to other palettes too.

I'm now guessing what you mean by "toolbar" is Custom Palette. Is that right? If so, we can manually rearrange brush category icons and menu command buttons inside a Custom Palette, however we like, though it might be nice (might if it worked well for the artist) to have them automatically move to fill whatever size the Custom Palette happens to be. It might not work if the artist wanted icons and menu command buttons arranged in a specific order and in specific rows or columns. In that case, "option" is the key word, giving the artist a choice to use or not use the "flow" method.

Shapes

It may be me, but when I draw a straight line I have to click the start point and the end point. I’d like to be able to drag the end-point and see dynamically where the line is going to go before committing.

If you're referring to a straight line drawn with the Pen tool, it's true that we need to click once for each anchor point.

It's easy to do what you want:

1. Click once with the Pen tool to begin the straight line.
2. Click again with the Pen tool to end the straight line.
3. Let go.
4. With the Pen tool still active, hold down the Ctrl key (Windows) or Command key (Mac) temporarily activate the Shape Selection tool, click the last anchor point, and drag to position it wherever you want.
5. Let go, and the Pen tool is again active.

Additions

I’d love to have the option to sample colours from one image (as if to create a colour set) but then change the colour attributes of a second image to fit the first’s palette.

If I'm understanding what you want, we have it in Painter X.

Effects > Tonal Control > Match Palette

1. Open both images.
2. With the image you want to change active, use Effects > Tonal Control > Match Palette and select the name of the other image from the Source: drop down list.
3. Adjust the sliders as needed, then click the OK button.

Jinny 

Thanks for that reply! Looks like I can do a lot of what I was asking already, I was just doing it wrong.

I'll check through all you've posted in more detail later and get back to you on the bits that need clarification.

Cheers
 

Yes speaking of animation features how about make the animation features for Corel Painter  a plug-in or extension  to make it optional for some Corel Painter users. Also make this plug-in available to users of the most recent Painter versions like Painter 8,9,9.5 and X in addition to future versions of Corel Painter. 

I'd really like to be able to test the degree of control I have within the Brush Tracking Preferences so I don't have to keep going back and forth between the canvas and preferences to make sure my brush strokes are responding the way I want them to.  I'd also like the pencils to behave more like pencils.  What I mean by that is that I'd like to be able to adjust not only the sharpness of the point but the length of the tip so that I can use the tilt control on my Wacom Intuos 3 to use the edge of the virtual pencil tip on it's side.  Until I can use the digital pencil like the real thing I will never be able to use Painter for my entire workflow. 

 Here is another thing they should fix.

In your custom palatttes, I like to be able to write actual text for each brush instead of seeing the icons of the paint brushes.

Also, I wish Painter was more Zbrush friendly. Painter can not generate 16 bit Tiffs (for Zbrush textures) and it doesn't work well with the ZAPLink program which bridges Zbrush with another bitmap application. 

I think the key for me is a program that would require the minimum time on the phone answering "What happened..and how do I ??" questions! 

I do have a basic version of elements that came with my old Graphire tablet, though it still has the potential to create confusion without having a real knack for computer programs. Id really love a stripped down, basics version with simple, intuitive tabs and buttons that do logical, intuitive things. A few kinds of paper/canvas...a few good palettes, even the mixer. A selection of brushes/pens/pencils....and the most useful paints. Acrylics..watercolours..oils etc. A basic form of layers and that's about it. Something as approachable and usable as a table covered in art supplies. Something that would get someone with a mouse or basic tablet hooked on Painter. I have been using the "graffiti" application on Facebook for a bit, to teach myself how to better draw/paint with a tablet (being overly used to traditional methods) and its a super popular tool. Its basic, easy to use and with a simple palette..single brush, undo button and transparency setting ,there's not much to it. I did a few with my old, lag prone computer and managed some decent images, with minimal tools at hand. Several contests had over 6000 entries and I managed to actually win a Wacom tablet in one of them. The point being, that a non-intimidating interface can be fun to use and popular. Near that level of simplicity, plus Painters ability to mimic media would be a great entry level tool for budding artists.

No..painter essentials is still to tricky for someone who doesnt have the time or interest in learning gits ins and outs. Im talking about a basic, "painter for dummies" with the most basic painter functions, but still with the amazing brush/paint realism that PainterX (and essentials) has. Something that doesnt require existing knowledge of how advanced graphics programs work. People who have been using computers and programs like painter and photoshop for years find it fairly easy, but if you are new to it, its quite non-intuitive. I can guarantee you 100% that my dad for instance, who would get a great deal out of Painter....would try a few things..have some luck..but get frustrated and not use it again...ever. He doesnt have the time or interest to figure out all the keyboard shortcuts..the different menus for stuff that could have an icon...the lack of a simple "undo" button...etc. I found it frustrating and am at the point where stuff seems reasonably easy..to a point...but there is lots that is simply not intuitive in terms of functions and navigation. A *SIMPLE* program for kids and people who just want to experience the painting/drawing abilities of the program would benefit from it. People who use this stuff daily for years probably think all the hidden menus and sub menus are perfectly intuitive.

It seems you might not be happy with the result even then, as every program require some basic knowledge, as does the art of image making. Art realy isn't a point and click activity dispite what the general public sometimes thinks digital art is.

Edie 

Apparently Im not making sense here. Im wishing for a separate program for kids (and or adults who just want the basics) no to dumb down painterX. A program, based on painter with the brush/paint ability of PainterX...In a simple interface without the bells and whistles.

I didnt at any time suggest art be "point and click" thing. What the heck is "point and click" about being able to select a canvas/paper type..select a brush..dip it in a colour palette and paint? That sounds like painting to me. Ive been an artist for a living for over 20 years now, and while Ive used various programs since the 90's, I've yet to come across one that is entirely intuitive in its layout and use. Saying that its supposed to be difficult, sounds like the complexity is intended to keep the riff-raff out if they cant speak the language and know the handshake. I personally believe that progress is making a thing easier, not more bulky and complex.

Photoshop elements 6 now has Guided, Quick and Full edit modes for that very reason. A person with no prior PS experience can use the Guided, learn, move to the Quick edit and from there, the full edit mode. Admittedly, that entirely photographic, but still. Keeping a program complex costs customers in the long run Id think. Ive met a ton of people who have said "Oh, I have a copy of that, but its really dense and I dont have time to learn it."

Hi,

I'm guessing your Wacom tablet came bundled with Painter Essentials 3.

Painter Essentials 4 has a completely redesigned interface and may fit the bill.

It can't hurt to download the free 30 day trial version and check it out:

Painter Essentials 4

By the way, I don't think the reason for Painter's complexity is to "keep the riff-raff out".

Corel Painter is complex because it's a rich program with the most advanced brush technology available in any program.

It's complex because it offers a great deal of variety and flexibility to the artist who wants those capabilities.

It's complex because it contains a great deal of what artists have asked for over many years and many versions.  

For all that, I am very grateful as I love the program, love learning it, and have never once found myself bored with Corel Painter, any version. Even after all these years, I still discover new things.

That's not for everyone, to be sure, but it is marvelous for a whole lot of artists.

Cheers!
 

Sorry about the riff raff comment. I was just responding to the idea that its supposed to be difficult. Personally, I still feel that progress is making things less difficult and not more complex. Perfection is making something complex, easy and intuitive. Digital art should be as easy and accessible as traditional media. Drawing with pastel, on rough paper, digitally, should be as simple as doing it traditionally. The more features you can have the better, but in an intuitive and straightforward manner. 

 Theres 2 separate discussions I think I got into here. One is just my wish for a kid friendly version for sale, for my artistic, but still only 10 year old niece and her 7 year old sister. Something aimed at kids but with the great ability to mimic media that Painter has. Id also like in some ways..a simpler (and essentials 4 may have this) version for my dad, who lacks the time and patience to get out of painter what I have, by sitting here and going to forums..buying books..and painting away for hours.

 Myself, I still think that a few details are a bit needlessly difficult in PainterX. The end result is fine and I love that I discover new things, but the basics are sometimes convoluted when they should be the most basic functions.

I'll give the example of canvas/papers. I saw in magazines that people were using canvases and art papers in their images. I finally found the papers menu in the toolbar, but because it includes stuff like dots and wood, I didnt immediately see it was different from the hens and chicks or patterns menus. Having found the menu, I selected..but nothing happened. I then found the wee drop down tab Aha! Fiddled with it..got what I was looking for...create paper and nothing. No obvious way to make my blank canvas into canvas or paper. I got a huge headache and gave up. I much later found that its in effects...under surface control...under apply surface texture and then paper is a choice with some other stuff. I now can make it work easily enough. The thing is, that selecting a paper/canvas is one of the most basic things in all of painting/drawing. Having one palette in one place, then applying it in another, hidden under tonal control is to me, completely non-intuitive.

The best interface for me is like a pyramid. This is to say that the most basic function is easy to get at and make work. The farther in you go, the wider your options, the more complex and the more adaptable it becomes. Id love to be able to simply choose a canvas (like the existing palette) hit "apply" and paint on it. Id then like to open further menu's and change that canvas, make it a surface texture and change that lighting, depth, grain...Have all the options I have now.

My graphic card works like this. I have the basic interface for the usual functions, then I have basic settings button and advanced settings button to choose from. I can choose as little or as much control as I like. Paper should be like this. Choose from the list..."Linen canvas"...have a preview image and an "Advanced settings" tab...this would have everything thats in the effects menu currently. Same control, but laid out in a logical and liner way.

 Jin, thank you for this information. From what you're describing I can see why it would have a lot of problems working. I think if they just made a small stand-alone version which was separate from trying to get the same version and patching it to match another user, it could work. A very stripped down version where it's more like Painter Classic could cut down on programming issues. I'd certainly purchase it if it was out on the market.

I am late getting in on this conversation.  I, too, would love to see a version with netpainter.  With broadband like it is today, I believe it would work much better.  Sure, it used to crash a lot but was still fun and we learned a lot from it...Like Jin, I painted with some kids in a school in Ohio and I think we all learned from the experience.  And I would buy one if it were on the market.  When I was using it, it was on dial-up.  Boy, would I ever like to see it now!  I reinstalled version 7 but no one else seems interested in backing up to use it. 

Ann 

Ion66:

Sorry about the riff raff comment. I was just responding to the idea that its supposed to be difficult.

Hi Ion66,

No offense taken, no apology needed.

I'll respond to parts of your post, not to convince, but to inform for those who might benefit from the information. 

Personally, I still feel that progress is making things less difficult and not more complex. Perfection is making something complex, easy and intuitive. Digital art should be as easy and accessible as traditional media. Drawing with pastel, on rough paper, digitally, should be as simple as doing it traditionally.

Drawing with pastel, on rough paper, digitally in Corel Painter can be as simple as doing it traditionally. 

1. Choose the Paper (from the Papers palette)
2. Choose the Pastels brush category, then choose a Pastels' brush variant.
3. Draw on the Canvas or Layer and you'll see the Paper texture in the brush strokes.

To make the entire Canvas, the entire Layer, or selected areas of the Canvas or Layer textured, use Effects > Surface Control > Apply Surface Texture, Using: Paper. Adjust the sliders as needed for the desired effect.

Some artists don't want surface texture applied over the entire Canvas or Layer, or over the entire finished image so that's an option to use or not as desired.... among many other ways to use Painter's Paper texture, some of which I'll list below. 

The more features you can have the better, but in an intuitive and straightforward manner.

What's an intuitive and straightforward manner to one artist may not be to another artist, depending on their experience (traditional and/or digital), the kind of art they create, their style(s), and especially the way the artist thinks and learns (the latter varies widely!).

Theres 2 separate discussions I think I got into here. One is just my wish for a kid friendly version for sale, for my artistic, but still only 10 year old niece and her 7 year old sister. Something aimed at kids but with the great ability to mimic media that Painter has.

Speaking from experience with my (then) four year old grandaughter, kids can be fearless and not have the problems adults often have picking up tools and features in Painter and having fun with them (or learning many other new things). Take a look at this section of PixelAlley to see what Jody did left alone with the full Painter 6 version, after only a few quick instructions from her father about how to create a new Canvas, choose brush variants, adjust brush Size, create Layers, choose the Text tool and type text, etc.:

Painter Exchange 

Jody's now 12 years old and a couple of years ago in a phone conversation, she gave me some pretty sophisticated tips on using Painter (wish I could remember what she said now!). ;)

Since both of her parents work and don't have much time (or energy) to spend teaching her, and as far as I know her father's the only parent who uses his computer and knows anything about Painter, I expect she pretty much figured this stuff out on her own.

Myself, I still think that a few details are a bit needlessly difficult in PainterX. The end result is fine and I love that I discover new things, but the basics are sometimes convoluted when they should be the most basic functions.

What's basic for one artist may not be basic to another, depending on their experience (traditional and/or digital), the kind of art they create, and their style(s).

I'll give the example of canvas/papers. I saw in magazines that people were using canvases and art papers in their images. I finally found the papers menu in the toolbar, but because it includes stuff like dots and wood, I didnt immediately see it was different from the hens and chicks or patterns menus. Having found the menu, I selected..but nothing happened. I then found the wee drop down tab Aha! Fiddled with it..got what I was looking for...create paper and nothing. No obvious way to make my blank canvas into canvas or paper. I got a huge headache and gave up.

This scenario is a good example of when and why reading Painter's Help > Help Topics > Contents tab > Textures, Patterns, and Weaves chapter, the page named Using Paper Texture might save the artist some headaches.

There, we can find information on:

The same goes for other features in Painter. Spending the time to read Help Topics for information can be a huge help.

I much later found that its in effects...under surface control...under apply surface texture and then paper is a choice with some other stuff. I now can make it work easily enough. The thing is, that selecting a paper/canvas is one of the most basic things in all of painting/drawing. Having one palette in one place, then applying it in another, hidden under tonal control is to me, completely non-intuitive.

As we learn more about Corel Painter, we find that Paper texture can be used in many ways in addition to the Apply Surface Texture effect. Thus the single location for choosing the current Paper, and multiple other ways to determine how the current Paper texture is used. For instance:

Paint with a brush variant that interacts with the currently selected Paper texture (i.e. Sandy Pastel Paper and Pastel's Tapered Pastel 30 variant)

Select Menu:

Effects Menu: 

• Tonal Control > Adjust Colors, Using: Paper
• Tonal Control > Adjust Selected Colors, Using: Paper
• Surface Control > Adjust Dye Concentration, Using: Paper
• Surface Control > Apply Screen, Using: Paper
• Surface Control > Apply Surface Texture, Using: Paper
• Surface Texture > Color Overlay, Using: Paper 
• Surface Control > Dye Concentration, Using: Paper 
• Surface Texture > Express Texture, Using: Paper
• Surface Control > Distress, Using: Grain
• Focus > Depth of Field, Using: Paper
• Focus > Glass Distortion, Using: Paper
• Esoterica > Custom Tile, Using: Paper

Layers Palette Commands:

• Lift Canvas to Watercolor Layer, then Wet Entire Watercolor Layer (The result can be subtle to extreme, depending on the currently selected brush variant and the currently selected Paper, in addition to any custom adjustments made to the brush variant and/or the Paper.) 

Members reading this thread might find my tutorial published in the November 2006 issue of The Painter Canvas a helpful overview of some of the ways we can create and use texture in Corel Painter:

Scratching the Surface: An Introduction to Textures in Corel® Painter™

The best interface for me is like a pyramid. This is to say that the most basic function is easy to get at and make work. The farther in you go, the wider your options, the more complex and the more adaptable it becomes. Id love to be able to simply choose a canvas (like the existing palette) hit "apply" and paint on it. Id then like to open further menu's and change that canvas, make it a surface texture and change that lighting, depth, grain...Have all the options I have now.

My graphic card works like this. I have the basic interface for the usual functions, then I have basic settings button and advanced settings button to choose from. I can choose as little or as much control as I like. Paper should be like this. Choose from the list..."Linen canvas"...have a preview image and an "Advanced settings" tab...this would have everything thats in the effects menu currently. Same control, but laid out in a logical and liner way.

That might be a useful addition to Painter but it would not be useful (IMHO) as a replacement for the current capabilities related to using Painter's Paper textures.

Again, my comments are intended to inform, not to convince. I hope some of you will find them helpful.