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citizenbfk:

Not sure what you mean (post above), the "User area" vs. "software installation area.'

I have a Mac.

Ok...I'm pc based so my knowledge of where things are on the mac side is limited.

For both mac and pc, Painter exists in 2 locations:

1. The installation/application area--where the actual software is installed

2. The user area which exists individually for each user of a computer system--I am the only user of my pc so there is only one user area for Painter 12 on my pc. The user area holds--oddly enough--user-based Painter data. This is the data that makes your Painter yours. For example, when you do a Save Variant, the new brush variant is place in your Painter 12 user area files, when you change your Painter workspace, those changes are saved in your user area.

My guess is that the deletions you did were done in the user area not in the software installation/application area which is why you still see the Painter 11 Brush library in the Brush Selector bar > options > Brush Library list.

From what I have read, Lion installs software in a different place than Snow Leopard which I believe installs Painter 12 in Applications > Corel Painter 12--if you use Lion, you're going to have to do some research on where your mac OS installs software...

Hope that helps...

Terrie

It's not necessary to delete brushes to save memory. Go to "C:\Program\Corel\Painter12\Brushes" and add a new directory (or several). Copy those brush variants that you like into this new directory. Don't forget to also copy its jpg file. Now you only have to change Brush Library to the new one, which contains only your favourite brushes.

As I understand it, one only needs to make changes in the Corel install directory (in Windows, for instance, "C:\Program\Corel\Painter12\Brushes"). This is also the method advocated in the Corel help files. As I am a newbie I prefer to follow Corel's own recommendations, until I get a better grasp. The User directory is under the "Application Data" directory (hard to find). One needn't change this. This directory is used by the program to store user changes to the brushes, etc. (i.e. chosen size of the brush, etc., so you don't have to increase size of brush every time you start the program).

So, for instance, if you download Gell's brushes, you should create a directory (e.g. Gell Brushes) under "C:\Program\Corel\Painter12\Brushes". The program will then create a mirror directory under "C:\Documents and Settings\(User)\Application Data\Corel\Painter 12\Default\Brushes\". From now on the program will store any changes you make to Gell's brushes in the User directory. This means that you can restore Gell's brushes any time (Restore Default Variant). This is only possible because you have created a new directory in the Corel install directory "C:\Program\Corel\Painter12\Brushes". (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

The simplest way to solve memory problems, however, is to order extra SDRAM on Ebay. It is usually cheap. I will probably receive my extra memory today. Usually there is room left for additional SDRAM. It is easy, it's only to plug it in on the motherboard. Remember to ground your hands first, to remove static electricity.

Mats

Dear tib, That's interesting (your post, above). The directory structure idea is the same on Mac, one for /Users/username  and one for Root (the computer, material for all users, just a /)

Each of these folders has a subfolder Library and in each of these Libraries is another subfolder named: Application Support.

As you correctly surmized I was making changes in the Brushes Folder for Corel in my Users directory. It's very simple to do (as MatsW also explains, in his post, above) and I like having a Brush Library catagory for 'Calligraphy & Nature Brushes,' for example.

Now why did the old folders I deleted, why their names still indicated as one of my Brush Libraries? -- This is not a 911 emergency to me and I thought it was just a Painter thing...but your post sent me searching.

Each Mac directory, /user/username and /  (Root), each has a Library and each of these libraries has a subfolder called Application Support and that's where one would expect to find additional material for all applications.

Strangely enough....rather unexpected, there was no Corel Folder in the / (Root) directory and I thought you were right and I expected to find such a folder and expected to find replicants of the subfolders I had deleted from my /user/username directory.

I'll poke around more but as indicated, this is not a 911 emergency imo and has nothing to do with Thread Topic of saving memory. 

I do have the new Mac OS 10.7 (Lion) and as you also indicated it does now hide things, like the /user/username Library (!?) but these can be 'unhidden.'

As far as the Thread Topic goes it now seems there are two emphatic answers: deleting brushes is not necessary to save memory. So the only reason to do all this is just to streamline and customize and have Brush Libraries that you like or suit your workflow.

I'll have to reserve judgement about the memory issue. I have the 'old school,' idea that if I have opened/loaded a Brush catagory then I'd expect that will take up memory and even when I close the catagory this memory usage will not be given back -- but I may be wrong about that.

I'm enjoying Painter 12 immensely, btw - I only worked several years with Photoshop before. The only memory issue has been testing out Multicore brush parameters...then the brush strokes don't show up right away. It's a fabulous program with an apparently infinite number of possibilities.

Dear MatsW, I think you are right. Another useful thing for smooth functing and Corel (and other such complex programs) talk about is having a 2nd hard drive and using part of that hard drive for Scratch....like a scratch pad. This is assigned in Corel Preferences.

I do still hang onto an 'old school,' idea that if I open a Brush catagory it uses memory and when I close that catagory that usage of memory is not given back -- but I could be wrong about this, it's just a computer work habit I now have that fits in with my desire to have streamlined Brush Libraries and Brush Library catagories/folders that are useful to me. (Which can be easily set up, as you explained).

I presume that, if you open a Brush Library, etc., and close it, the program must release the RAM memory, otherwise the program would soon crash, when there is no memory left. You do these operations all the time when working with the program. I created a Brush Library with only the Real Wet Oil brushes. This means that only the Real Oil brushes are loaded into RAM memory, which saves a lot of memory, I suppose. (I assume we are discussing RAM memory, here, and not HDD memory.) So there is no reason to delete brushes to save RAM memory.  Just create new Brush Libraries.

/Mats

Brushes are tremendously efficient and the whole library is really small -- any memory savings would be insignifigant.

The best reason for creating extra brush libraries is for brush creation and customization.

Yes, you're probably right, to create new brush libraries is mostly for convenience.  But if you're working near the memory threshold, the size of the brush library could play a role, I suppose. What brought the issue up is what the help files says, I suppose. Corel Painter Help says:

Brush Libraries and Memory Usage

Brushes are loaded into memory when you open Corel Painter, so adding brushes to the default brush library increases the need for RAM. If you’re working close to the memory threshold, you can organize new brushes into secondary libraries. It is also a good idea to limit the number of items in each library.

When you want a different brush set, just switch libraries. This helps Corel Painter be more efficient with memory usage, and makes it is easier to find a particular item.

/Mats

The default Paper textures (for example) take up much more space than the brush libraries... but yes optimizing all of your libraries would be smart if you are running a very old or weak system.

Generally the real problem with Painter and memory (at least on my Win XP systems) is that it will continually add to the memory usage while you work with every additional brush stoke... this memory does not get released when you close the document. You have to fully close and restart Painter to release the memory.

But Painter starts with only about 180mb of memory being used -- which on most modern systems (2GB +) is not much... but over a long painting sessions can build to the point where it is holding most (if not all) of the RAM.

The thing to remember is the "80%" setting in the preferences will need to be adjusted depending on which operating system you are using and how much RAM you have -- the operating system can take about 1GB for it's own processes, and then you are likely to have nearly another GB used if you have alot of other startup programs (virus scanner, firewall, IM, acrobat, etc).

So if you have the memory set to use 80% of a 2GB system you will have poor performance before you even start painting because Painter is likely to be using the scratch disk already... I carefully manage all my startup programs to minimize this and there are features of your OS you can disable (like sounds and fancy graphics) that will save a bit on OS related RAM usage. But at the end of it all it is best to limit Painter to only use the remainder of the physical RAM on the system so that you don't get stuck working from the scratch disk (which is way slower).

See the correction I've added to your text below, strikeout in bold red text, correction in bold green text

nightshadow:

You seem to be doing a lot of very unnecessary work. As Terrie previously told you:

The Painter 11 brushes would only be loaded if you clicked on the options icon in the Brush Selector bar, clicked on the Brush Library suboption and selected the Painter 11 brush library. If you don't do that, the Painter 11 brushes are not loaded when you start Painter 12 so there is no impact on memory usage and there is no reason to delete the Painter 11 brush folder.

Unlike the way the Windows OS deals with Fonts, Painter 12 does not load all of the brushes you have in the Brushes folder. It only loads one brush category brush library at a time which you select from the Options menu. 

Btw, if your Variants are only showing up as a list, it may be because while you were doing all that moving around of files, you forgot to save the jpeg images for the Variants which had them.

Jinny

Amazing...

This appears to be the correct answer to the thread's question, as quoted from the Corel User's Guide, page 146 and already indicated by MatW

QUOTE:

@tib Re: Why did my deleted Brush Library folders still keep showing up? 

This is a bit 'techie,' but for what it's worth, I found where there was another Brush folder on my Mac (user/username/applicationsupport/corel/painter12/defaults/brushes)

It appears that whenever you use any brush the folder for it's catagory and an xml file is created by Painter 12 in this default location. (Perhaps there is where info about saved varients goes?)

So...even though I deleted the duplicate and unwanted brushes from the Corel application folder (not touching Painter 12 brushes, at all) -- there were still these folders in this default location. Once I deleted them they disappeared from the Brush Library options.

Everything working fine. Enjoying the program. Nice to have the Brush Libraries the way I wanted them (as indicated on page 146 of Corel User Manual two good reasons -- if reasons needed -- 1)customization, 2)save memory.

citizenbfk:

This is a bit 'techie,' but for what it's worth, I found where there was another Brush folder on my Mac (user/username/applicationsupport/corel/painter12/defaults/brushes)

This is the installation/application area that I mentioned in my previous post:

tlb: "For both mac and pc, Painter exists in 2 locations: 1. The installation/application area--where the actual software is installed"

citizenbfk:

It appears that whenever you use any brush the folder for it's catagory and an xml file is created by Painter 12 in this default location

No...not quite.

This is the Painter 12 installation/application area which (as I noted in my previous post and quoted myself above) is where the actual Painter 12 software files are stored. Among the Painter 12 software files are all of the Painter 12 supplied brushes in the Brushes folder ( Painter 12 Brushes  and the supplied for convenience Painter 11 Brushes) containing the brush categories which contain the .xml, .stk, .nib and .jpg (if there is one for the brush) for each brush in a brush category within a brush library--these are the files that define how a brush works. When you use a brush, an entry for that brush is made in the appropriate brush category folder in the appropriate brush library your User area. The entry is in the format  c_brushname.xml and the brush files in the installation/application area brush category remain untouched.

citizenbfk:

(Perhaps there is where info about saved varients goes?)

No...Save VariAnts (not variEnts) are saved in your User area as I also mentioned in my previous post:

tlb: "2. The user area which exists individually for each user of a computer system--I am the only user of my pc so there is only one user area for Painter 12 on my pc. The user area holds--oddly enough--user-based Painter data. This is the data that makes your Painter yours. For example, when you do a Save Variant, the new brush variant is place in your Painter 12 user area files, when you change your Painter workspace, those changes are saved in your user area."

So when you do a Save Variant, the new brush's files (.xml, .stk, .nib, .jpg if there is one) are saved in the appropriate brush category in the appropriate brush library in your User area. The newly Save Variant brush does not exist matching brush category and brush library in the installation/application area.

citizenbfk:

Once I deleted them they disappeared from the Brush Library options.

Yes as I also mentioned in my previous post:

tlb: "My guess is that the deletions you did were done in the user area not in the software installation/application area which is why you still see the Painter 11 Brush library in the Brush Selector bar > options > Brush Library list"

citizenbfk:

2)save memory

Actually, you are not saving memory by deleting the Painter 11 Brush folder from the Painter 12 installation/application area Brushes folder because, as I also mentioned in my first reply to you:

tlb: "The Painter 11 brushes would only be loaded if you clicked on the options icon in the Brush Selector bar, clicked on the Brush Library suboption and selected the Painter 11 brush library. If you don't do that, the Painter 11 brushes are not loaded when you start Painter 12 so there is no impact on memory usage and there is no reason to delete the Painter 11 brush folder."

What you have done is perhaps made things tidier because you are not interested in using the Painter 11 brushes in Painter 12, deleting the Painter 11 Brushes folder from the Painter 12 installation/application area Brushes folder means that the Brush Selector bar's Brush Library option will not display the "Painter 11 Brushes" library.

Terrie

For Mac Users: You will find Painter 12 files in two places, in your Applications folder and the other location is in your (now hidden in Lion) user Library/ApplicationSupport/Corel.

The Lion user Library can be 'unhidden" with a freebie program like Cocktail.

Page 146 of the Corel User's Guide explains best and most authoritatively the issue of the thread, (already quoted and quite clear).

This topic seems to bring out the underlining problem I have in trying to delete some brush folders that don't work properly that I put into the Brush area in Painter 11 from a DVD.  They still appear in my Brush Library Window!  I have Windows XP and I have yet to be able to delete these brush category folder titles and when I press on them, they still remember the errors and the error windows still jump out at me. So they are still located somewhere on my computer.  I can get to them and delete the folders in question from my Program Files, but the path to the User folder under Documents and Settings does not give me that option as nothing from Painter is located there. Everything is located in Program Files.  To me not being able to delete these folders that won't Load for me are "more than a minor appearance issue". They still appear there in my Brush Library Window even when I reinstalled Painter 11 twice! I was afraid to upgrade for fear I'd still have the same problem of them showing up in Painter 12. Jinny wrote me on the other thread what needs to be done, but I still have this issue as to why I do not have a User access. Now I don't know what to do. I thought my computer worked fine even though I've had it for 8 yrs. Now I don't know what to do.  It appears everyone has less problems when using a Mac. But I'm still dealing with a Brush issue on a DVD that I purchased that isn't working properly.  Had this not been the issue, I would not have learned about the proper way of deleting Brushes from the Brush Loader Window as I am not a professional at this. But I can't even do that right now as Painter does not appear in my User/Admin area.

mds:

but the path to the User folder under Documents and Settings does not give me that option as nothing from Painter is located there. Everything is located in Program Files.

Just to make sure you are looking in the correct place in WinXP, could you please double-check the following:

1. Open Explorer (not Internet Explorer) and check the settings in Tools > Folder Options > View tab, is "Show hidden files and folder" selected? If not, click on that option and OK out

2. This is the path for the User area of Painter 11 (the Painter 12 location is similar):

c:\Documents and Settings\yourwindowsuserid\Application Data\Corel\Painter 11

and within the \Painter 11 folder you should see "Default" folder which contains the default workspace for Painter 11 and you can browse around in there and take a look at the various subfolders.

Do you see it?

mds:

I was afraid to upgrade for fear I'd still have the same problem of them showing up in Painter 12.

Just install Painter 12 in a completely new (separate, different) location--DO NOT do an OVERLAY install overlaying Painter 12 on top of Painter 11. The default installation location should be something like c:\program files\painter 12 and it will not have anything to do with your current Painter 11 installation.

mds:

It appears everyone has less problems when using a Mac

You have obviously not read the posts from the clueless mac users who have no idea where any of their files actually reside...'-}}

Hope that helps...

Terrie